I think it was this week’s police report that mentioned someone cited for hunting inside the city limits. Since hunting season began, I’ve been surprised at how many times I’ve heard shooting that sure sounded close.
Once again, just after 7 this morning when it was much more dark than light, someone was firing away.
“Are you praying for his death?” Colmes asked Drake, referring to President Obama. “Yes,” Drake replied. “So you’re praying for the death of the president of the United States?” Colmes asked. “Yes.” “You would like for the president of the United States to die?” Colmes asked once more. “If he does not turn to God and does not turn his life around, I am asking God to enforce imprecatory prayers that are throughout the Scripture that would cause him death, that’s correct.”
Owls tend to ambush their prey on the ground and their chances of landing a killing blow are slimmer. So they have evolved feet that are better at restraining struggling prey. Their toes are shorter and stronger than those of other raptors, and one of them can swivel backwards so that the owl can grip with two pairs of opposing toes. That makes them powerful constrictors, capable of crushing small animals in a suffocating ‘fist’. It also means that they specialise on smaller victims, and rarely tackle the larger prey that falcons and eagles do.
Contrarian: I don’t know who Drake is but I’m sure people all over the world are praying for our President’s death just as they did when President Bush was in office.
Green: I would be interested in reading accounts of pastors suggesting imprecatory prayer calling for Pres. Bush’s death.
Contrarian: I was thinking of Imams. Does that count?
Green: Let’s start with the American Christian pastors.
Contrarian: I’m suprised. Are you marginalizing the Islamic faith or holding Chistians to a different standard?
Sybil Diccion:
Asking David if he is marginalizing the Islamic faith is shameless in light of the seriousness of this subject matter. Should we be holding Christians to a different standard? Absolutely. Why? Because we do it to ourselves. Many fundamentalist Christians DO hold themselves to a different standard–not only one of superiority but also because they believe that their God is a different God from the one who created Muslims and others who do not believe the way they do.
So you’re darned right; let’s start with American Christian pastors. After all, that is the category under which this subject falls. Bringing up the question, “I wonder how many people all over the world want Obama dead” is a straw man argument. How convenient it is to avoid the fact that although it is the right-wing Christian who really wants him dead, maybe by saying “people all over the world” (when what is really meant are Islamics), then hopefully, that will direct the awfulness of Drake’s imprecatory prayer away from this supposed Christian’s behavior.
I doubt that any individual in the Morenci area knows a thing about the Islamic faith except that “they want all of us dead”. But even if that were true, where in the Bible does it remotely suggest that anyone of the Christian faith should wish someone dead? In all the 8 years that GWB held sway, I NEVER, EVER, wished him dead. I wished to hell he would never have been selected by the SCOTUS, and I disagreed with almost every decision he (or Cheney,the real policy pusher) ever made. But I NEVER wished him dead.
(As an aside, I just want to say that I’m not at all in agreement with Obama’s decision to continue many of Bush’s egregious policies. And come 2012, if he doesn’t institute the reasons for which he was legally elected, I will not vote for him).
Contrarian’s comment that there are people all over the world praying for Obama’s death doesn’t compute; just listen to what many leaders of the free world have to say about him. But I’ll bet that if you start questioning people right here in little old Morenci, you would find quite a few who share Drake’s prayer–and I doubt any are Muslims.
Christ weeps.
Contrarian:
Wow! My comment was not meant to offend but to challenge our thinking not only about the bias of others but of our own. I believe that is the purpose of many of David’s posts.
To be clear, I have never prayed for the demise of anyone, particularly our Presidents. To the contrary, I pray that each one will be endued with wisdom beyond their natural ability to lead our country.
I intended to read the context of Drake’s comments after the holiday but evidently David has taken the original post down. I suspect the issue involved was abortion. It does not appear that Drake has singled President Obama out in this regard and takes others to task in the same way; the Supreme Court, George Tiller and Rick Warren have all been prayed at, so to speak, for God’s wrath.
I do hold some contrary views to the above post. [Isn’t my pen name appropriate?] I have never heard of any Christians that think there is some other god that created Muslims. I think a core principle of Christianity is the one God who created us all idea.
There does seem to be some prevalent bias in that a right-wing pastor’s comments are somehow more significant than those of an Islamic fundamentalist. Evidently, the SB church that Drake is associated with has disavowed his comments. The effort of some to marginalize all Christians because of his comments is wrong. There are nuts all over the world.
Sybil, I’m sure you know the Old Testament is full of prayers asking for God to smite the enemies of the Jewish nation; King David for example.
To really be contrary, is it wrong to pray for something that God has said already said he is going to do? 2 Thes. 1:6-9
What is the greater sin; to pray for the destruction of another or to enable others to do it? Is. 44:24
I’m sure I’m not as versed as some in world faiths and affairs. I’m sure none of us are as smart as we would like to think we are. Is. 44:25
Sybil Diccion:
#1) From salon.com:
“Drake has just recently lifted his call for imprecatory prayer against the president, but only because he wants Obama to live long enough to stand trial for treason. Drake continues to argue that Obama is not a U.S. citizen and that his claim to the presidency is illegitimate as a result.”
So apparently, abortion is not the only issue. And I intensely suspect that there are more issues but I have no evidence.
#2) I didn’t think I had to specifically write, NEW TESTAMENT, particularly in view of the fact that I said, quote: “where in the Bible does it remotely suggest that anyone of the Christian faith should wish someone dead?” I guess I shouldn’t have assumed what I thought to be obvious.
In every scriptural example cited by Contrarian, I see none from the NT. But to be fair, I guess I should have been more clear in that I was sort of thinking more towards the teachings of Jesus Christ. After all, isn’t He the Way-shower? The One we are named after? I simply do not recall Him EVER advocating or praying for the death of someone.
I’m all for lively discussion that this blog stimulates–don’t get me wrong. However, I stand by my original premise: David was talking about a Christian pastor wishing for the death of Obama, not whether or not Muslims want Obama dead.
#3) I called an Adrian gent after reading (in his letter to the editor) that “his God” was not the same creator of “those people in I-rak”. I asked, “are you suggesting there is more than one God?” He answered in the negative. I asked then what he meant by two different Creators–one for “his kind” and one for “those others”? After a pause, he hung up.
Believe me when I say that there are people who believe this–not even considering how illogical their statements.
Regarding 2 Thes. 1:6-9, where Contrarian asks: “is it wrong to pray for something that God has already said he is going to do?” Let me answer this way. I’ve never been one who felt it necessary to help God along in His wisdom. I guess I always thought that since God is Omniscient, Omnipresent, and Omnipotent, He doesn’t need me to confirm that which is already in place. In my estimation, the I AM THAT I AM is not One who is limited by any decision I might have on the matter. But that’s just me, I guess.
Contrarian:
After reading more of what the interview said I would also conclude there is more to Drake’s views than the abortion issue. I apologize for taking us down that road.
So, if as you say this post is to discuss what pastor’s should pray, specifically a Christian pastor, then I can comment on that. I do not like the premise, in that this type of discussion is tantamount to telling a black pastor or a jewish priest that there is somehow a different status given to their prayers, statements and opinions. Is that like a straw man’s arguement? I was not familiar with that phrase when presented earlier.
Many Christians believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. Some may believe only the New Testament is. I’ve always thought it requires more faith to believe parts of the bible are the word of God then to believe the whole compilation is. I’m not sure where you fall in that, Sybal, so it is hard to know how to answer your questions and statements.
I believe the Son of God [Christ] existed prior to the birth in the manger. There seems to be several references to him in the Old Testament. You evidently put some stock in the Old Testament with your “I AM” reference.
I do not believe God needs us to pray to Him but I believe He wants us to pray and to pray within His defined desires. Certainly, you know of several New Testament scriptures to substantiate that. I don’t think that means that we are “helping God along with His wisdom”.
On your point of Christ not advocating in the NT praying for the death of someone, I agree.
It seems to me that the context of what Drake was talking about was that God has said that all physical death is a result of sin and that unabsolved sin results in eventual spiritual death. Drake specifically qualified his statement that unless Obama turned his life around “turned away from sin” that he would pray for his death. It seems like a distasteful way to put it but he is praying on principles that God has put in place. Sin separates us from God.
I think the real issue for both of the other commentors on this blog is that Drake is making the assumption that he knows Obama has sinned and is continuing to do so; a perogitive for God alone to judge.